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	<title>Comments on: Give our culture a break</title>
	<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Aman</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3603</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3603</guid>
					<description>I'm still trying to figure out why the second assumption is invalid. India's rich Cultural heritage in addition to good economic growth and development should be primary responsibilities of the State.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still trying to figure out why the second assumption is invalid. India&#8217;s rich Cultural heritage in addition to good economic growth and development should be primary responsibilities of the State.
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		<title>by: Rajagopal</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3604</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3604</guid>
					<description>Making the state respoonsible for cultural heritage will basically mean the ICHR and other allied departments are the private domain of whichever party is in power, or more particularly which ideology holds sway at the centre. It will lead to Marxist historians dominating the ICHR and impose such nonsense as the detoxification drive. Leave history to historians (anyone can be a historian if he/she puts time into it) and get the state out of the writing history.Nothing good comes of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Making the state respoonsible for cultural heritage will basically mean the ICHR and other allied departments are the private domain of whichever party is in power, or more particularly which ideology holds sway at the centre. It will lead to Marxist historians dominating the ICHR and impose such nonsense as the detoxification drive. Leave history to historians (anyone can be a historian if he/she puts time into it) and get the state out of the writing history.Nothing good comes of that.
</p>
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		<title>by: seven_times_six</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3605</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3605</guid>
					<description>In the days of yore, of kings and vazirs, was it not the patronage of the king, of the nobles which allowed art to prosper. Art as well as science actually.

The common man of yore was not so interested in beauteous paintings, nor in beauteous physics equations.

To require progress in arts and science to be dictated by what the market wants is a recipe for stagnation.

But state patronage does lead to the ills mentioned in the article. Is there a solution? Yes there is.

But before that, let me come back to the basic fallacy in your position, which is that of applying the free-market concept, which requires monetizability of goods as an axiom, to inherently non-monetizable goods. 

Euler's results in Number Theory are useful to cryptography now, but could we monetize it then? You do realize that all the prosperity that allows you the leisure to so speculate upon things, is due to the inherently non-monetizable products of geniuses of yore?

Sorry for the jumbled rantish comment, I I'll make a more coherent post on this shortly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the days of yore, of kings and vazirs, was it not the patronage of the king, of the nobles which allowed art to prosper. Art as well as science actually.</p>
<p>The common man of yore was not so interested in beauteous paintings, nor in beauteous physics equations.</p>
<p>To require progress in arts and science to be dictated by what the market wants is a recipe for stagnation.</p>
<p>But state patronage does lead to the ills mentioned in the article. Is there a solution? Yes there is.</p>
<p>But before that, let me come back to the basic fallacy in your position, which is that of applying the free-market concept, which requires monetizability of goods as an axiom, to inherently non-monetizable goods. </p>
<p>Euler&#8217;s results in Number Theory are useful to cryptography now, but could we monetize it then? You do realize that all the prosperity that allows you the leisure to so speculate upon things, is due to the inherently non-monetizable products of geniuses of yore?</p>
<p>Sorry for the jumbled rantish comment, I I&#8217;ll make a more coherent post on this shortly.
</p>
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		<title>by: seven_times_six</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3606</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3606</guid>
					<description>oh goody, I found an earlier post of mine on this --- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ravikiran.com/2004/12/11/extra-market-funding/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;clicky&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh goody, I found an earlier post of mine on this &#8212; <a href="http://www.ravikiran.com/2004/12/11/extra-market-funding/" rel="nofollow">clicky</a>.
</p>
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		<title>by: tea</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3607</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3607</guid>
					<description>In the US, most musuems are private nonprofit organizations funded and run by private entities. There are plenty of private foundations that patronize art and support artists. Private universities, which is where most of the basic research takes place, again are largely funded by donations fromn lay people. So, state patronage is hardly necessary.

What you say about art in medieval times is not entirely true. In north India, music and dance was indeed patronized by kings. But in the south, music flourished mostly in temples. (That is also one reason why Carnatic has a plebian and therefore greater following than Hindustani.) Thyagaraja could have had royal patrons if he wanted, but he chose not to. Tulsidas had no royal patron.

There is market for philanthropy and the the promotion of arts and sciences. It is a mistake to assume that market means profit.

Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the US, most musuems are private nonprofit organizations funded and run by private entities. There are plenty of private foundations that patronize art and support artists. Private universities, which is where most of the basic research takes place, again are largely funded by donations fromn lay people. So, state patronage is hardly necessary.</p>
<p>What you say about art in medieval times is not entirely true. In north India, music and dance was indeed patronized by kings. But in the south, music flourished mostly in temples. (That is also one reason why Carnatic has a plebian and therefore greater following than Hindustani.) Thyagaraja could have had royal patrons if he wanted, but he chose not to. Tulsidas had no royal patron.</p>
<p>There is market for philanthropy and the the promotion of arts and sciences. It is a mistake to assume that market means profit.</p>
<p>Regards
</p>
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		<title>by: uma</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3608</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3608</guid>
					<description>I agree. The State has other things to do; and the management of culture is better done by the community itself. In which case artists should stop seeking State patronage, too. For example, Jitish Kallat's &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mumbaimirror.com/mmpaper.asp?sectid=10&amp;articleid=5302005233655609530200523360109&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;call&lt;/a&gt; in this week's Mumbai Mirror for state support to contemporary art. I think contemporary art is doing pretty well on its own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. The State has other things to do; and the management of culture is better done by the community itself. In which case artists should stop seeking State patronage, too. For example, Jitish Kallat&#8217;s <a href="http://www.mumbaimirror.com/mmpaper.asp?sectid=10&#038;articleid=5302005233655609530200523360109" rel="nofollow">call</a> in this week&#8217;s Mumbai Mirror for state support to contemporary art. I think contemporary art is doing pretty well on its own.
</p>
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		<title>by: seven_times_six</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3609</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3609</guid>
					<description>tea: the non-profit organizations and private universities require funds and grants to operate. I'll give you one guess about who is the biggest dispenser of these grants.

The US has an excellent system with its National Science Foundation, etc. for disbursal of grants where researchers, artists or their organizations thereof compete in the &quot;marketplace&quot; for said grants. The head of such org. are themselves veteran researchers/artists.

This creates a healthy incentive based system as opposed to the problems of state &lt;i&gt;institutions&lt;/i&gt; alluded to in the article. That is what I meant in my earlier comment when I said that there is a &quot;solution&quot; --- of state sponsorship of research w/o the stink of state interventions.

US senators have little control over NSF, etc. other than setting the budget limits.

Research and Art should not be at the mercy of philanthropy. For that would be a misunderstanding of their purpose as needless past-times of affluence. They are not --- in fact I'd argue they are the prime purpose of humanity in the first place. 

They are not the &lt;i&gt;effect&lt;/i&gt; of affluence, they are the &lt;i&gt;cause&lt;/i&gt;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tea: the non-profit organizations and private universities require funds and grants to operate. I&#8217;ll give you one guess about who is the biggest dispenser of these grants.</p>
<p>The US has an excellent system with its National Science Foundation, etc. for disbursal of grants where researchers, artists or their organizations thereof compete in the &#8220;marketplace&#8221; for said grants. The head of such org. are themselves veteran researchers/artists.</p>
<p>This creates a healthy incentive based system as opposed to the problems of state <i>institutions</i> alluded to in the article. That is what I meant in my earlier comment when I said that there is a &#8220;solution&#8221; &#8212; of state sponsorship of research w/o the stink of state interventions.</p>
<p>US senators have little control over NSF, etc. other than setting the budget limits.</p>
<p>Research and Art should not be at the mercy of philanthropy. For that would be a misunderstanding of their purpose as needless past-times of affluence. They are not &#8212; in fact I&#8217;d argue they are the prime purpose of humanity in the first place. </p>
<p>They are not the <i>effect</i> of affluence, they are the <i>cause</i>!
</p>
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		<title>by: Quizman</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3610</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3610</guid>
					<description>Excellent comments by #42. I always felt the same as he did, which is that the role of the Indian state should be disburse money and get away from administration. Much like PBS/NPR, National Science Foundation in the US. They serve very important purposes - some of which cannot be determined, as 42 stated, for many years to come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent comments by #42. I always felt the same as he did, which is that the role of the Indian state should be disburse money and get away from administration. Much like PBS/NPR, National Science Foundation in the US. They serve very important purposes - some of which cannot be determined, as 42 stated, for many years to come.
</p>
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		<title>by: tea</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3611</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3611</guid>
					<description>Seven,

You are way off the mark about the importance of NSF. The total annual NSF budget is about $5 billion. Contrast that with $16 billion that the household sector gives away annually to nonprofit research foundations in the US. We are not including how much universities would fund out of their own corpus (largely collected from alumni donations) and from private-corporate-funded research.

In addition household donate about $10 billion to musuems and libraries. 

Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seven,</p>
<p>You are way off the mark about the importance of NSF. The total annual NSF budget is about $5 billion. Contrast that with $16 billion that the household sector gives away annually to nonprofit research foundations in the US. We are not including how much universities would fund out of their own corpus (largely collected from alumni donations) and from private-corporate-funded research.</p>
<p>In addition household donate about $10 billion to musuems and libraries. </p>
<p>Regards
</p>
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		<title>by: Yazad</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3612</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/06/02/give-our-culture-a-break/#comment-3612</guid>
					<description>Quizman, Pradeep (aka 7*6)

And where is the government going to get the money to pay for your fine ideas? I suppose taxation or deficit financing (fancy term for printing more money and causing inflation). I'd rather avoid. 

Uma, I agree. Artists who put out begging bowls in front of the government repulse me. Come on, there must be a priority list for goverment and I think support for arts and culture should be way way down (ideally not there at all).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quizman, Pradeep (aka 7*6)</p>
<p>And where is the government going to get the money to pay for your fine ideas? I suppose taxation or deficit financing (fancy term for printing more money and causing inflation). I&#8217;d rather avoid. </p>
<p>Uma, I agree. Artists who put out begging bowls in front of the government repulse me. Come on, there must be a priority list for goverment and I think support for arts and culture should be way way down (ideally not there at all).
</p>
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