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	<title>Comments on: Double check the statistics!</title>
	<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Rajib</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-44699</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-44699</guid>
					<description>Thanks for the eye openers.
where can i have the state wise rankings in different economic parameters?
Rajib</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the eye openers.<br />
where can i have the state wise rankings in different economic parameters?<br />
Rajib
</p>
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		<title>by: Sourav</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-7750</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-7750</guid>
					<description>Wanderr

I would suggest that you look up migration data to Mumbai. Migration from West Bengal to Mumbai is amongst the lowest. Southern states, Bihar and UP make up the bulk of migration and slum dwellers in Mumbai. Bangladeshis also exist in sizeable numbers. As for the trade you are referring too, there is no statistical evidence to prove your &quot;ground&quot; realities. If you have such results let us see them.

Now from offical GOI data:
  
On an all India basis, Maharashtra has the largest number of migrants (born in other states) at 7.9 million, followed by Delhi with 5.6 million and West Bengal with 5.5 million.

Between 1991 and 2001 Maharashtra received the largest net migration of 2.3 million followed by Delhi (1.7 million), Gujarat, Haryana and West Bengal.

The states with maximum outflow of people were Uttar Pradesh (2.3 million), Bihar (1.7 million), Tamil Nadu (Surprise!), Andhra Pradesh, Orissa, Rajasthan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wanderr</p>
<p>I would suggest that you look up migration data to Mumbai. Migration from West Bengal to Mumbai is amongst the lowest. Southern states, Bihar and UP make up the bulk of migration and slum dwellers in Mumbai. Bangladeshis also exist in sizeable numbers. As for the trade you are referring too, there is no statistical evidence to prove your &#8220;ground&#8221; realities. If you have such results let us see them.</p>
<p>Now from offical GOI data:</p>
<p>On an all India basis, Maharashtra has the largest number of migrants (born in other states) at 7.9 million, followed by Delhi with 5.6 million and West Bengal with 5.5 million.</p>
<p>Between 1991 and 2001 Maharashtra received the largest net migration of 2.3 million followed by Delhi (1.7 million), Gujarat, Haryana and West Bengal.</p>
<p>The states with maximum outflow of people were Uttar Pradesh (2.3 million), Bihar (1.7 million), Tamil Nadu (Surprise!), Andhra Pradesh, Orissa, Rajasthan.
</p>
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		<title>by: Bhaskar</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-5666</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-5666</guid>
					<description>Thanks a lot for the info guys</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks a lot for the info guys
</p>
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		<title>by: Ravikiran Rao</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3450</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3450</guid>
					<description>I read this too. I just wanted to know how are the figures used to calculate GDP collected? Is it ultimately a statistical measure? I can understand the West Bengal Government wanting to massage the data to make it look good, but all governments have that desire . To what extent can governments - state or central  -influence this process? What level of confidence can we have in the GDP figures?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read this too. I just wanted to know how are the figures used to calculate GDP collected? Is it ultimately a statistical measure? I can understand the West Bengal Government wanting to massage the data to make it look good, but all governments have that desire . To what extent can governments - state or central  -influence this process? What level of confidence can we have in the GDP figures?
</p>
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		<title>by: tea</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3451</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3451</guid>
					<description>Ravi,

The state administrations are responsible for putting out the state domestic product based on data from Block Development officers (I am not 100% sure about the latter). That the West Bengal government systematically overstates growth has been known for a long time. I cant recall the exact study right away. If I find it in my files, I will post it. States have an incentive to understate growth. their share of central government money is partly dictated by their relative income level. In fact, Tamil Nadu apprently understates growth. You have to keep in mind that the governments care about what their constituents think. Now most people voting in India hardly know anything about State Domestic Product or state growth rates. So, there is little incentive to overstate. India's GDP, if anything is understated according to most people in the know. West Bengal is unique. Communists, as we know from experience in USSR and CHina, are congenitally inclined to exaggerate topline numbers. In WB, it is not for election purposes. They are foregone winners. Burnishing growth numbers is mainly for propoganda purposes.

Regards
Srinivas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ravi,</p>
<p>The state administrations are responsible for putting out the state domestic product based on data from Block Development officers (I am not 100% sure about the latter). That the West Bengal government systematically overstates growth has been known for a long time. I cant recall the exact study right away. If I find it in my files, I will post it. States have an incentive to understate growth. their share of central government money is partly dictated by their relative income level. In fact, Tamil Nadu apprently understates growth. You have to keep in mind that the governments care about what their constituents think. Now most people voting in India hardly know anything about State Domestic Product or state growth rates. So, there is little incentive to overstate. India&#8217;s GDP, if anything is understated according to most people in the know. West Bengal is unique. Communists, as we know from experience in USSR and CHina, are congenitally inclined to exaggerate topline numbers. In WB, it is not for election purposes. They are foregone winners. Burnishing growth numbers is mainly for propoganda purposes.</p>
<p>Regards<br />
Srinivas
</p>
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		<title>by: sauvik chakraverti</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3452</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3452</guid>
					<description>GDP statistics and &quot;growth rates&quot; are totally meaningless. the former includes the &quot;government sector&quot; and ADDS it to GDP as a positive, while this should actually be SUBTRACTED as producing &quot;bads&quot; (not &quot;goods&quot;).

growth rates are averages. here too there are problems sceptics like me have when the PM, say, says &quot;agriculture is growing at 6.2%&quot;, &quot;industry at 7.8%&quot; and so on, for the precision is surely FALSE.

disraeli said &quot;there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.&quot;

winston churchill put it even better: &quot;the only statistics i believe are those i falsified myself.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GDP statistics and &#8220;growth rates&#8221; are totally meaningless. the former includes the &#8220;government sector&#8221; and ADDS it to GDP as a positive, while this should actually be SUBTRACTED as producing &#8220;bads&#8221; (not &#8220;goods&#8221;).</p>
<p>growth rates are averages. here too there are problems sceptics like me have when the PM, say, says &#8220;agriculture is growing at 6.2%&#8221;, &#8220;industry at 7.8%&#8221; and so on, for the precision is surely FALSE.</p>
<p>disraeli said &#8220;there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.&#8221;</p>
<p>winston churchill put it even better: &#8220;the only statistics i believe are those i falsified myself.&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: Corrector of Maladies</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3453</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3453</guid>
					<description>Hi Srinivas,

Could you please tell me how do the statisticians collect the sector wise GDP data. Can the agricultural data be inconsistent with the FCI procurement data for instance
Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Srinivas,</p>
<p>Could you please tell me how do the statisticians collect the sector wise GDP data. Can the agricultural data be inconsistent with the FCI procurement data for instance<br />
Regards
</p>
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		<title>by: Sourav</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3454</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3454</guid>
					<description>When it comes to statistics in India, everyone has an agenda. Just as the Left Front wants to gloss up its figures, Left detractors to &quot;prove&quot; that the Left failed try to find holes in them. The truth is thus sacrificed at the altar of political leanings.

Whatever be the &quot;statistical  perceptions and misinterpretations&quot; by both sides - Kolkata and West Bengal are doing pretty well in terms of economy. 

Not because the Left did a revolution, but because the people did it for themselves. The credit goes to the people not to the political parties.

I think there has been so much media brainwashing against West Bengal, Bengalis and the Left Front, that most people when they see anything good published once or twice jump up saying it cannot be true. 

Anytime there is a factory closure - it is militant unions - but not a single newspaper will have the guts to say how the mill owners exploit workers - low wages or no wages, pf chori etc etc. Why because many of the mill owners are also shareholders of our media groups or are part of the buddy club. 

It is much like the stereotyping of India in the world community - poor, hungry, backward, people riding elephants and worshipping cows. Just as that ain't completely true, neither Guruswami or Omkar ji come clean on the scale of truthfulness.

Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it comes to statistics in India, everyone has an agenda. Just as the Left Front wants to gloss up its figures, Left detractors to &#8220;prove&#8221; that the Left failed try to find holes in them. The truth is thus sacrificed at the altar of political leanings.</p>
<p>Whatever be the &#8220;statistical  perceptions and misinterpretations&#8221; by both sides - Kolkata and West Bengal are doing pretty well in terms of economy. </p>
<p>Not because the Left did a revolution, but because the people did it for themselves. The credit goes to the people not to the political parties.</p>
<p>I think there has been so much media brainwashing against West Bengal, Bengalis and the Left Front, that most people when they see anything good published once or twice jump up saying it cannot be true. </p>
<p>Anytime there is a factory closure - it is militant unions - but not a single newspaper will have the guts to say how the mill owners exploit workers - low wages or no wages, pf chori etc etc. Why because many of the mill owners are also shareholders of our media groups or are part of the buddy club. </p>
<p>It is much like the stereotyping of India in the world community - poor, hungry, backward, people riding elephants and worshipping cows. Just as that ain&#8217;t completely true, neither Guruswami or Omkar ji come clean on the scale of truthfulness.</p>
<p>Cheers
</p>
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		<title>by: Ravikiran Rao</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3455</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3455</guid>
					<description>I just noticed a problem with Omkar's argument. A growth rate is a comparison with a previous year. But when he talks of social indicators, he is comparing with the rest of the country. To make sense, his argument should see how the other indicators have been doing over the past ten years, during which he alleges that the growth numbers have been fudged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just noticed a problem with Omkar&#8217;s argument. A growth rate is a comparison with a previous year. But when he talks of social indicators, he is comparing with the rest of the country. To make sense, his argument should see how the other indicators have been doing over the past ten years, during which he alleges that the growth numbers have been fudged.
</p>
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		<title>by: tea</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3456</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2005/05/13/double-check-the-statistics/#comment-3456</guid>
					<description>Corrector of maladies,

FCi procurement data are used only as one of the inputs for estimating prices. they are not used for estimating output as far as I know. Check out this methodology paper from the CSO: http://mospi.nic.in/nas_snm.htm

Data reported by State Revenue Officers is a major input! 

Sourav,

I dont think you can put down everything to an agenda against West Bengal or the Leftists. There is a lot of truth to it unfortunately. And i can say this from first-hand experience. I grew up in Calcutta in the 1970s and father came to Calcutta in the early 1960s. At that time Madras was a village compared to Calcutta and the difference was still palpable even when I was growing up. Check for yourself the contrast today. I need not talk about the relative performance of Bombay. That is too dramatic.

As for the rural side. I have been there too. As a child I used to go to Gurup in Hoogly district and to my native village in TN. I have seen their evolutions. And because I have travelled a lot by bus, I have a broad-brush view of the rural areas. I can tell you categaorically, West Bengal may have improved, but the pace of change is glacial compared to the more progressive states, like Gujarat, TN, and Maharashtra.

Btw, take a look at the new paper by two economists at the Federal Reserve Bank of New york on West Bengal:
http://www.econ.ucla.edu/people/papers/Lahiri/Lahiri319.pdf

Regards
Srinivas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corrector of maladies,</p>
<p>FCi procurement data are used only as one of the inputs for estimating prices. they are not used for estimating output as far as I know. Check out this methodology paper from the CSO: <a href='http://mospi.nic.in/nas_snm.htm' rel='nofollow'>http://mospi.nic.in/nas_snm.htm</a></p>
<p>Data reported by State Revenue Officers is a major input! </p>
<p>Sourav,</p>
<p>I dont think you can put down everything to an agenda against West Bengal or the Leftists. There is a lot of truth to it unfortunately. And i can say this from first-hand experience. I grew up in Calcutta in the 1970s and father came to Calcutta in the early 1960s. At that time Madras was a village compared to Calcutta and the difference was still palpable even when I was growing up. Check for yourself the contrast today. I need not talk about the relative performance of Bombay. That is too dramatic.</p>
<p>As for the rural side. I have been there too. As a child I used to go to Gurup in Hoogly district and to my native village in TN. I have seen their evolutions. And because I have travelled a lot by bus, I have a broad-brush view of the rural areas. I can tell you categaorically, West Bengal may have improved, but the pace of change is glacial compared to the more progressive states, like Gujarat, TN, and Maharashtra.</p>
<p>Btw, take a look at the new paper by two economists at the Federal Reserve Bank of New york on West Bengal:<br />
<a href='http://www.econ.ucla.edu/people/papers/Lahiri/Lahiri319.pdf' rel='nofollow'>http://www.econ.ucla.edu/people/papers/Lahiri/Lahiri319.pdf</a></p>
<p>Regards<br />
Srinivas
</p>
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