Comments on: The waves of divine retribution http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/ Tue, 07 Oct 2008 03:53:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: sauvik http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2634 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2634 couple of points on the faith in god: as many have argued, from jain munis to aj ayer, the belief that god is the immaterial creator of a material universe, that he is also benevolent, omniscient (all-knowing) and omnipotent are completely at odds with rational thought. "if the history of the world was said to have been planned by its creator, a strong case could be made out for inferring that he is malevolent," says ayer. however, toynbee offers a way out when he says that there is good and evil in the world, god made it that way, and that it is important to recognise the "forces that make for good". these are, as i argued in "antidote", the market and the sexual union: two material and physical components of dharma, artha, kama, moksha. these are "forces that make for good", and this is a very different conception of the hand of god at work. in this connection, do refer to today's article from the mises.org people. it establishes clearly that economic freedom enables people to earn money and withstand nature's fury with ease. pj o'rourke recounts a hurricane in hong kong, during which residents and tourists were advised to wait it out in hotel bars. in orissa, thousands die when cyclones strike - because there are no concrete buildings. ngo's are building concrete 'cyclone shelters' in orissa today. i visited one. it was in a village of thatched houses, with a population of 1600. just 25 km from overcrowded cuttack, 30km from the capital bhubaneshwar - but no road. with roads and automobile ownership and free market real estate development, the 'village' would be full of concrete, and everyone would survive happily without the stupid ngo. couple of points on the faith in god: as many have argued, from jain munis to aj ayer, the belief that god is the immaterial creator of a material universe, that he is also benevolent, omniscient (all-knowing) and omnipotent are completely at odds with rational thought. “if the history of the world was said to have been planned by its creator, a strong case could be made out for inferring that he is malevolent,” says ayer.
however, toynbee offers a way out when he says that there is good and evil in the world, god made it that way, and that it is important to recognise the “forces that make for good”. these are, as i argued in “antidote”, the market and the sexual union: two material and physical components of dharma, artha, kama, moksha.
these are “forces that make for good”, and this is a very different conception of the hand of god at work.
in this connection, do refer to today’s article from the mises.org people. it establishes clearly that economic freedom enables people to earn money and withstand nature’s fury with ease. pj o’rourke recounts a hurricane in hong kong, during which residents and tourists were advised to wait it out in hotel bars. in orissa, thousands die when cyclones strike - because there are no concrete buildings. ngo’s are building concrete ‘cyclone shelters’ in orissa today. i visited one. it was in a village of thatched houses, with a population of 1600. just 25 km from overcrowded cuttack, 30km from the capital bhubaneshwar - but no road. with roads and automobile ownership and free market real estate development, the ‘village’ would be full of concrete, and everyone would survive happily without the stupid ngo.

]]> by: Chandrashekhar Bhosle http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2635 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2635 Actually, if it was a case of Swami Magic, Jayalalitha would have drowned in her bath tub instead of random economically challenged individuals near the sea :) Actually, if it was a case of Swami Magic, Jayalalitha would have drowned in her bath tub instead of random economically challenged individuals near the sea :)

]]> by: Quizman http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2636 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2636 Yazad, It also depends on what one's definition of "god" is. Fundamentally, Hinduism do not have a concept of god as a benevelont bearded man. :-) I think we often mix the semitic concept of god. But sadly, Hindus, in practise, have very little time for abstract philosophies, but lots of it for rituals. Yazad,

It also depends on what one’s definition of “god” is. Fundamentally, Hinduism do not have a concept of god as a benevelont bearded man. :-) I think we often mix the semitic concept of god. But sadly, Hindus, in practise, have very little time for abstract philosophies, but lots of it for rituals.

]]> by: MadMan http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2637 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2637 Quizman, why don't you enlighten us? Quizman, why don’t you enlighten us?

]]> by: Niket http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2638 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2638 Madman, you are beyond enlightenment... there is no hope :-) I was ROFLing (sic) reading Rajeev Srinivasan's article... especially the last few paragraphs. Madman, you are beyond enlightenment… there is no hope :-)

I was ROFLing (sic) reading Rajeev Srinivasan’s article… especially the last few paragraphs.

]]> by: Quizman http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2639 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2639 Madman --> nice try for a troll. :-) Madman –> nice try for a troll. :-)

]]> by: MadMan http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2640 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2640 Actually, that wasn't a troll at all, dude. (A proper troll would be "Hindus are all deluded idiots who haven't been able to develop their rational thinking faculties") But you said: "Fundamentally, Hinduism do not (sic) have a concept of god as a benevelont bearded man." And I keep asking Hindus what Hinduism's concept of "God" is and the variance in the answers is quite surprising. At least the Christians stick to their one deity. (And Niket, wrong use of "sic" :) Actually, that wasn’t a troll at all, dude.

(A proper troll would be “Hindus are all deluded idiots who haven’t been able to develop their rational thinking faculties”)

But you said:
“Fundamentally, Hinduism do not (sic) have a concept of god as a benevelont bearded man.”

And I keep asking Hindus what Hinduism’s concept of “God” is and the variance in the answers is quite surprising. At least the Christians stick to their one deity.

(And Niket, wrong use of “sic” :)

]]> by: Quizman http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2641 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2641 Madman, The variance should not surprise you. I assumed that you were setting a trap when you asked that question using the words: "*You* enlighten *us*." :-) Madman,

The variance should not surprise you. I assumed that you were setting a trap when you asked that question using the words: “*You* enlighten *us*.”

:-)

]]> by: MadMan http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2642 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2642 <i>I assumed that you were setting a trap when you asked that question</i> If you believe your position is strong, you shouldn't worry about that. ;) But yes, I hate the "shifting goalposts" tactic when debating, which is why an up-front declaration of definitions and beliefs is required. Since you asserted that "X isn't [something]", I merely asked what "X" is. That gives me a good starting point. I assumed that you were setting a trap when you asked that question

If you believe your position is strong, you shouldn’t worry about that. ;)

But yes, I hate the “shifting goalposts” tactic when debating, which is why an up-front declaration of definitions and beliefs is required.

Since you asserted that “X isn’t [something]”, I merely asked what “X” is. That gives me a good starting point.

]]> by: Quizman http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2643 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/12/31/the-waves-of-divine-retribution/#comment-2643 Madman, No one shifted goalposts. No one is worried about his position (whatever that means). You said "Quizman, why don't you enlighten us?" I can't. [Hint: Refer Brighu's question in Taittriyaka Upanishad] Madman,

No one shifted goalposts. No one is worried about his position (whatever that means).

You said “Quizman, why don’t you enlighten us?”

I can’t.

[Hint: Refer Brighu’s question in Taittriyaka Upanishad]

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