Comments on: Women = Vagina ? http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/ Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:14:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: Sampada http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-802 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-802 A few of my thoughts: 1. The main discussion of Cathy Young's criticism is whether it was appropriate to stage the play at a high school. I'd say no. Teen-agers (girls) are only just learning about their bodies at the ages of 13-18. And although it's true, that sex is not a taboo subject to adolescents in the US, the subject matter of Vagina Monologues, what Ensler is trying to say in the play, would not be comprehensible to the actors themselves. 2. That brings me to my second point - the play itself. Cathy Young says - "The Vagina Monologues actually promotes victimhood and hate, not empowerment". From what I remember of the play, it does not. Of course, a lot depends on your interpretation of the play too. The play is a tongue in cheek representation of the male-dominated sexual lives of us all. Although some of the ideas expressed seem pretty outdated, and I think that these days, at least in cosmopolitan areas, even women enjoy sex and are aware of their sexuality. In one section of the play Ensler is trying to bring to the fore the repressed sexuality of women from third world countries. It is at times, as serious, as it is funny. At the end of it all, one has to take it with a pinch of salt. Learn and inculcate what is worth, and laugh the rest off. 3. As far as the celebration of Vagina Day is concerned, I think it's absolutely foolish. If there's no "Men's Day" celebrated, then why should we celebrate "Women's Day"? Those who take it up as an opportunity to listen to a pseudo writer and drink and party, well, let them. I celebrate my womanhood every single day of the year. Period.(No pun intended) :-) A few of my thoughts:
1. The main discussion of Cathy Young’s criticism is whether it was appropriate to stage the play at a high school. I’d say no. Teen-agers (girls) are only just learning about their bodies at the ages of 13-18. And although it’s true, that sex is not a taboo subject to adolescents in the US, the subject matter of Vagina Monologues, what Ensler is trying to say in the play, would not be comprehensible to the actors themselves.

2. That brings me to my second point - the play itself. Cathy Young says - “The Vagina Monologues actually promotes victimhood and hate, not empowerment”. From what I remember of the play, it does not. Of course, a lot depends on your interpretation of the play too. The play is a tongue in cheek representation of the male-dominated sexual lives of us all. Although some of the ideas expressed seem pretty outdated, and I think that these days, at least in cosmopolitan areas, even women enjoy sex and are aware of their sexuality. In one section of the play Ensler is trying to bring to the fore the repressed sexuality of women from third world countries. It is at times, as serious, as it is funny. At the end of it all, one has to take it with a pinch of salt. Learn and inculcate what is worth, and laugh the rest off.

3. As far as the celebration of Vagina Day is concerned, I think it’s absolutely foolish. If there’s no “Men’s Day” celebrated, then why should we celebrate “Women’s Day”? Those who take it up as an opportunity to listen to a pseudo writer and drink and party, well, let them. I celebrate my womanhood every single day of the year. Period.(No pun intended) :-)

]]> by: Shanti http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-803 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-803 Another point of criticism about the play is the part where an adult woman seduces an underage girl after plying her with alcohol - if it were an adult man instead of a woman, this scene is actually statutary rape and would be condemned by women all over the world. I guess it is only OK for women to rape women(?). Another point of criticism about the play is the part where an adult woman seduces an underage girl after plying her with alcohol - if it were an adult man instead of a woman, this scene is actually statutary rape and would be condemned by women all over the world. I guess it is only OK for women to rape women(?).

]]> by: Yazad http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-804 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-804 Shanti, I don't remember that part at all. The version shown in Bombay was adapted with an Indian audience in mind. That may explain it. Sampada, do you remember this rape sequence? Cathy Young too talks about this rape sequence and it fits with my hypocrisy hypothesis about the mainstream feminist movement. Shanti, I don’t remember that part at all. The version shown in Bombay was adapted with an Indian audience in mind. That may explain it. Sampada, do you remember this rape sequence?

Cathy Young too talks about this rape sequence and it fits with my hypocrisy hypothesis about the mainstream feminist movement.

]]> by: Sampada http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-805 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-805 No, I think they edited that out taking into consideration the Indian audience. Thats the reason I left it out of my comment. Can't say anything much unless I see the play. In fact, my above comment would have several changes if I see the play again. No, I think they edited that out taking into consideration the Indian audience. Thats the reason I left it out of my comment. Can’t say anything much unless I see the play. In fact, my above comment would have several changes if I see the play again.

]]> by: Yazad http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-806 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-806 BTW, there is an alternative to the leftie, bra-burning, "mainstream" feminism. It's called <a href="http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/" rel="nofollow">i-feminism</a> or individual feminism. BTW, there is an alternative to the leftie, bra-burning, “mainstream” feminism. It’s called i-feminism or individual feminism.

]]> by: Sampada http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-807 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-807 I have problems with the word "feminism". I remember you introducing me to this site long ago. I have problems with the word “feminism”. I remember you introducing me to this site long ago.

]]> by: Yazad http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-808 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-808 Sampada, I agree with you on points 1 and 3. Regarding #2, the main theme of the play and Young's criticism, I was laughing too hard to notice. But of what I recollect, men were there largely as caricatures (e.g. the husband who wanted his wife to shave her pubic hair). It was very funny when it dealt with women and their experiences alone (flooding, even the moans and repetitions of vagina / cunt / chooth). But add the men in the picture and it kinda was one-tracked. Yes, the pinch of salt is quite necessary! Sampada, I agree with you on points 1 and 3.

Regarding #2, the main theme of the play and Young’s criticism, I was laughing too hard to notice. But of what I recollect, men were there largely as caricatures (e.g. the husband who wanted his wife to shave her pubic hair). It was very funny when it dealt with women and their experiences alone (flooding, even the moans and repetitions of vagina / cunt / chooth). But add the men in the picture and it kinda was one-tracked.

Yes, the pinch of salt is quite necessary!

]]> by: Yazad http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-809 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-809 Hey, we seem to be comment-chatting! :-D Hey, we seem to be comment-chatting! :-D

]]> by: Sampada http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-810 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-810 Yes, thats the best way to see it - men as caricatures. All of them with strange eccentricities - shaving pubic hair, or funny types like the guy who liked staring at the woman's vagina. I think Young leaps a little, from staging The Monologues in a highschool, to it being a statement of womanhood, which I don't think it is. It may be said that hundreds of women were interviewed before the play was written, but still those hundred women can't possibly be speaking for the rest of the billions of women all around the world. Hundred is a tiny percentage. The problem of the play, if I may say so, lies in making men the punching bag as far as women's sexual problems are concerned. Yes, thats the best way to see it - men as caricatures. All of them with strange eccentricities - shaving pubic hair, or funny types like the guy who liked staring at the woman’s vagina. I think Young leaps a little, from staging The Monologues in a highschool, to it being a statement of womanhood, which I don’t think it is. It may be said that hundreds of women were interviewed before the play was written, but still those hundred women can’t possibly be speaking for the rest of the billions of women all around the world. Hundred is a tiny percentage. The problem of the play, if I may say so, lies in making men the punching bag as far as women’s sexual problems are concerned.

]]> by: Gitika http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-811 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/03/06/women-vagina/#comment-811 hi ..what a coincidence that i came reading when you were discussing vagina monologues. actually...the supposed rape scene was there. and the rape once again is a matter of perspective for the simple reason that this person did not consider herself raped, and had infact been quite in love with the woman. and the little girl had quite a mind and strength of her own if you remember the part abt the woman not wanting her to drink cos 'your mother will not approve' and the little girl pouted and cockily said ' well she would not approve of you kissing me either' . i remember the scene clearly. and i do think it needs us to open our mind to what is really that made us uncomfy. could it be the homosexual tone? lolita as a book talks about a man in love with a 14 yrd old or smtg. and that book is literature quite comfortably. we even have stories of older women in love with little boys ( the reader by berhard schlink) but what was it abt this scene in this play that made us uncomfy ? secondly...the v day thing comes from the movement towards making women's sexuality more visible. talking about our bodies with greater pride...and like most passionate movements, it has become an all or none thing - all women, all vagina. but then again...matter of perspective..maybe she wants us to think about vaginas more often. so that we do not relegate them to 'that' or 'down there' also, betty dodson has seen and concentrated on one aspect of the monologues. besides violence, ensler has spoken immensely abt loving the vagina. i have the entire script with me, so i know for a fact that the violence( which i think is important to discuss) is not the main thrust of the play anyway. and ensler has shown the deepest regard for dodson and the work she has done. and that comes through. it would not have if the play was just about violence. about the caricatured men. yes, i think there was something to be desired in that dept. infact i dunno whether the actors made a hash of it or was it the design. vagina monologues for school girls ? ooh. will need adaptation. will need 'love and respect for body' lessons before lessons on what body can be used for. hi ..what a coincidence that i came reading when you were discussing vagina monologues.
actually…the supposed rape scene was there. and the rape once again is a matter of perspective for the simple reason that this person did not consider herself raped, and had infact been quite in love with the woman. and the little girl had quite a mind and strength of her own if you remember the part abt the woman not wanting her to drink cos ‘your mother will not approve’ and the little girl pouted and cockily said ‘ well she would not approve of you kissing me either’ . i remember the scene clearly. and i do think it needs us to open our mind to what is really that made us uncomfy. could it be the homosexual tone?
lolita as a book talks about a man in love with a 14 yrd old or smtg. and that book is literature quite comfortably. we even have stories of older women in love with little boys ( the reader by berhard schlink) but what was it abt this scene in this play that made us uncomfy ?

secondly…the v day thing comes from the movement towards making women’s sexuality more visible. talking about our bodies with greater pride…and like most passionate movements, it has become an all or none thing - all women, all vagina. but then again…matter of perspective..maybe she wants us to think about vaginas more often. so that we do not relegate them to ‘that’ or ‘down there’

also, betty dodson has seen and concentrated on one aspect of the monologues. besides violence, ensler has spoken immensely abt loving the vagina. i have the entire script with me, so i know for a fact that the violence( which i think is important to discuss) is not the main thrust of the play anyway.
and ensler has shown the deepest regard for dodson and the work she has done. and that comes through. it would not have if the play was just about violence.

about the caricatured men. yes, i think there was something to be desired in that dept. infact i dunno whether the actors made a hash of it or was it the design.

vagina monologues for school girls ? ooh. will need adaptation. will need ‘love and respect for body’ lessons before lessons on what body can be used for.

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