Comments on: And which is more, you will be a person my offspring http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/ Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:05:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: tsquared http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-718 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-718 If you enjoy the white supremacist rudyard kipling's poems, you should be enjoying hitler's paintings too If you enjoy the white supremacist rudyard kipling’s poems, you should be enjoying hitler’s paintings too

]]> by: Vipul http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-719 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-719 As long as the message has some value in it for you, does it matter who the messenger is?..."If" is a poem which conveys something meaningful to me, that its author might have been a white supremacist is immaterial to the content of the poem and hence to the joy it brings to me... Similarly, there is a lot to be learnt from Hitler, he had quite a few intelligent things to say...and even the Ramayan tells you that there was a lot to be learnt from Ravan, even if he did things that aren't considered right... As long as the message has some value in it for you, does it matter who the messenger is?…”If” is a poem which conveys something meaningful to me, that its author might have been a white supremacist is immaterial to the content of the poem and hence to the joy it brings to me…
Similarly, there is a lot to be learnt from Hitler, he had quite a few intelligent things to say…and even the Ramayan tells you that there was a lot to be learnt from Ravan, even if he did things that aren’t considered right…

]]> by: Ravikiran http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-720 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-720 dunno tsquared. I haven't seen any of Hitler's paintings. Are they good? dunno tsquared. I haven’t seen any of Hitler’s paintings. Are they good?

]]> by: Vipul http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-721 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-721 They're not really extraordinary, but are decent to look at...most of them are of the kind you specifically find on postcards... As an aside, would WW2 have happened had Hitler achieved success as a painter?...I strongly believe it would have, even though he might never have become one of its principal proponents. They’re not really extraordinary, but are decent to look at…most of them are of the kind you specifically find on postcards…
As an aside, would WW2 have happened had Hitler achieved success as a painter?…I strongly believe it would have, even though he might never have become one of its principal proponents.

]]> by: tsquared http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-722 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-722 I cannot separate the message from the messenger. These two are integral. There is no shortage of good messages from GOOD messengers. So, I choose messages from the right kind of messengers. I find it interesting that there are people like Ravikiran here who can enjoy the message regardless of the nature of the messenger. So, they can admire paintings of person like hitler independent of the heinous nature of the person. I am not saying it is right or wrong. My observation is that most people cannot separate these two dimensions. I cannot separate the message from the messenger. These two are integral. There is no shortage of good messages from GOOD messengers. So, I choose messages from the right kind of messengers.

I find it interesting that there are people like Ravikiran here who can enjoy the message regardless of the nature of the messenger. So, they can admire paintings of person like hitler independent of the heinous nature of the person. I am not saying it is right or wrong. My observation is that most people cannot separate these two dimensions.

]]> by: Ravages http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-723 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-723 tsquared. I dont think Kipling was White supremist. Much less do I consider him white at all. I believe he was one of the earlier writers to display a marked affection to India and Indian concepts. Not just in the Jungle book but even the Just So Stories and other books. Ravi - I absolutely agree. It is quite difficult changing perceptions and believes with writing. One might, if one tried real hard and for really llong a time. but how many of us have the patience and the drive to do so. We would ather exist this way than go out and change it. At the most one can always include both genders when one writes - Like I try always. but it is pretty difficult tsquared. I dont think Kipling was White supremist. Much less do I consider him white at all. I believe he was one of the earlier writers to display a marked affection to India and Indian concepts. Not just in the Jungle book but even the Just So Stories and other books.

Ravi - I absolutely agree. It is quite difficult changing perceptions and believes with writing. One might, if one tried real hard and for really llong a time. but how many of us have the patience and the drive to do so. We would ather exist this way than go out and change it.
At the most one can always include both genders when one writes - Like I try always. but it is pretty difficult

]]> by: Vipul http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-724 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-724 Ravages: In February 1899, Rudyard Kipling wrote a poem called "The White Man’s Burden: The United States and The Philippine Islands." In it, he urged the U.S. to take up the "burden" of empire, as had Britain and other European nations. An extract from the poem: "Take up the White Man's burden-- Send forth the best ye breed-- Go, bind your sons to exile To serve your captives' need; To wait, in heavy harness, On fluttered folk and wild-- Your new-caught sullen peoples, Half devil and half child." The rest I leave to your judgement. Ravages:
In February 1899, Rudyard Kipling wrote a poem called “The White Man’s Burden: The United States and The Philippine Islands.” In it, he urged the U.S. to take up the “burden” of empire, as had Britain and other European nations.

An extract from the poem:
“Take up the White Man’s burden–
Send forth the best ye breed–
Go, bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives’ need;
To wait, in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild–
Your new-caught sullen peoples,
Half devil and half child.”

The rest I leave to your judgement.

]]> by: tsquared http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-725 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-725 Ravages and Vipul, White man's burden and all that. Yet he is not white supremacist? If this is not white supremacism, then white supremacism has no meaning. Educated indians like Tagore found the white supremacist views of kipling are obnoxious -- the notion that non whites need whites to become civilized. Race or color of the skin has nothing to do with any superior quality. Check this news article on how kipling treated indians. http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IE420031023081358&Page=4&Title=Features+-+People+%26+Lifestyle&Topic=0& Do you think before British rule indians were a bunch of barbarians in need to be civilized? I repeat, contrary to what you may read in books like "Bell Curve" race or color of the skin does not make one superior. Ravages and Vipul,

White man’s burden and all that. Yet he is not white supremacist? If this is not white supremacism, then white supremacism has no meaning. Educated indians like Tagore found the white supremacist views of kipling are obnoxious — the notion that non whites need whites to become civilized. Race or color of the skin has nothing to do with any superior quality.

Check this news article on how kipling treated indians.

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IE420031023081358&Page=4&Title=Features+-+People+%26+Lifestyle&Topic=0&

Do you think before British rule indians were a bunch of barbarians in need to be civilized?

I repeat, contrary to what you may read in books like “Bell Curve” race or color of the skin does not make one superior.

]]> by: Vipul http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-726 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-726 Tsquared: In your zeal to both espouse your cause as well as condemn me at the same time, you either hardly paid any attention to what my comment actually was, or simply assumed that I am stupid. Of course I believe Kipling was a white supremacist, but I want to let Ravages arrive at that conclusion through his own thought, with the background material on Kipling that I used to arrive there. Hence the extract from the poem. Other than stupidity, can you think of a reason for including that extract if I didn't think Kipling was a white supremacist? Tsquared:
In your zeal to both espouse your cause as well as condemn me at the same time, you either hardly paid any attention to what my comment actually was, or simply assumed that I am stupid.
Of course I believe Kipling was a white supremacist, but I want to let Ravages arrive at that conclusion through his own thought, with the background material on Kipling that I used to arrive there. Hence the extract from the poem.
Other than stupidity, can you think of a reason for including that extract if I didn’t think Kipling was a white supremacist?

]]> by: Ravages http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-727 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/23/and-which-is-more-you-will-be-a-person-my-offspring/#comment-727 I stand corected. But I never, not for one instant, thought Indians were barbarians. I stand corected. But I never, not for one instant, thought Indians were barbarians.

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