Comments on: IIM Fee cut http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/ Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:09:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: Gautam http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-708 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-708 Needless to say I completly agree with your line of argument, and this is easily extended to other services and products that are subsidised by the government, in order to drum up popular support. The discussion we were having earlier about agriculture is a case in point. Being enrolled in just such a 'subsidised' course, I know something of the significant loss of quality in teaching staff and students that it causes. It is a pathological (was till recently atleast) to cry about the Brain Drain and loss of good minds. The lack of a genuine spirit of scholarship in India, is in my opinion directly correlated to the state subsidisation of higher education. Especially with alternatives such as ISB, MDI, ITM etc. emerging or existing, if the IIMs lose their brand value and quality, the vacuum will easily be filled by these new high cost private B-schools (unless they are next in MMJ's cross hairs). Those people who do go to the IIMs will constitute a new under-class of MBAs, on par in an extreme scenario to MDs from Patna University. Needless to say I completly agree with your line of argument, and this is easily extended to other services and products that are subsidised by the government, in order to drum up popular support. The discussion we were having earlier about agriculture is a case in point.

Being enrolled in just such a ’subsidised’ course, I know something of the significant loss of quality in teaching staff and students that it causes. It is a pathological (was till recently atleast) to cry about the Brain Drain and loss of good minds. The lack of a genuine spirit of scholarship in India, is in my opinion directly correlated to the state subsidisation of higher education.

Especially with alternatives such as ISB, MDI, ITM etc. emerging or existing, if the IIMs lose their brand value and quality, the vacuum will easily be filled by these new high cost private B-schools (unless they are next in MMJ’s cross hairs). Those people who do go to the IIMs will constitute a new under-class of MBAs, on par in an extreme scenario to MDs from Patna University.

]]> by: Ravikiran http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-709 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-709 My guess is IIMs will start putting opaque charges on students - like hiking library fees etc. and then students will end up paying the same amount of money, but will find it more complicated to fill the loan application form. The consequences may be unintended, but they are always inevitable. My guess is IIMs will start putting opaque charges on students - like hiking library fees etc. and then students will end up paying the same amount of money, but will find it more complicated to fill the loan application form.

The consequences may be unintended, but they are always inevitable.

]]> by: Vipul http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-710 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-710 Perfect! Although very very important, the autonomy of the IIM's, to me, is still the secondary issue here. The primary issue is precisely what you say - subsidising the class that does not need subsidy. Continuing, this is something that has always been characteristic of Indian education. Graduate and post-graduate education is consistently subsidised at the cost of primary and secondary education. People from the "comfortable class" continue to get education for far less than they can afford to pay, thanks to excessive subsidies while the basic infrastructure needed for primary and secondary education is neglected. And then the government expects people from a village that has no schools to make it to a university and be able to enjoy those subsidies? And as far as the IIM's are concerned, given that IIM graduates get pretty generous starting salaries, why not make them pay after they graduate (through student loans or some such concept) rather than reducing the fees? Perfect!
Although very very important, the autonomy of the IIM’s, to me, is still the secondary issue here. The primary issue is precisely what you say - subsidising the class that does not need subsidy. Continuing, this is something that has always been characteristic of Indian education. Graduate and post-graduate education is consistently subsidised at the cost of primary and secondary education. People from the “comfortable class” continue to get education for far less than they can afford to pay, thanks to excessive subsidies while the basic infrastructure needed for primary and secondary education is neglected. And then the government expects people from a village that has no schools to make it to a university and be able to enjoy those subsidies? And as far as the IIM’s are concerned, given that IIM graduates get pretty generous starting salaries, why not make them pay after they graduate (through student loans or some such concept) rather than reducing the fees?

]]> by: Charu http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-711 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-711 makes perfect sense... there is a huge amount of self-selection, or skew as you call it even at the admission test stage...and that seems only fair given the nature of the 'end-product' the IIMs hope to produce... but with me, like with most people, it is the interference that irks more than any actual proposal.... and the fact that primary eductaion has no hope in sight in India while such issues are dug up and discussed ad nauseum.... what is MMJ's trip ? to prove a point, see I can do what I want.... makes perfect sense… there is a huge amount of self-selection, or skew as you call it even at the admission test stage…and that seems only fair given the nature of the ‘end-product’ the IIMs hope to produce…

but with me, like with most people, it is the interference that irks more than any actual proposal…. and the fact that primary eductaion has no hope in sight in India while such issues are dug up and discussed ad nauseum….

what is MMJ’s trip ? to prove a point, see I can do what I want….

]]> by: Gautam http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-712 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-712 Contrary to popular belief I don't think Higher Education gets anything by way of lavish subsisdy. It gets a portion of the government budget which is true, but it does not get anything near what it requires to create a top-class scholarly environment. From the GoIs point of view it is far easier, I think, to track the use of funds going to Higher Education than to Primary Education. Universities and Colleges are registered and they are all dependent on government aid, and thus the flow of funds can be examined. But for Primary Schools, the geographical spread and linguistic diversity makes it first very difficult to track performance, and then to actually ensure that funds are flowing to the right places (this especially since many schools are directly run by the government). I think is the rationale behind the original 'trickle-down' theory of education. This is not to say however that the standards set for the tracking of HigherEd are very high, because in typical buereaucratic fashion these are a posteriori standards. Autonomous Instituitions like the IIMS and IITs set there own standards and are so way ahead of the rest that they can't even be compared on a single scale. IMHO Contrary to popular belief I don’t think Higher Education gets anything by way of lavish subsisdy. It gets a portion of the government budget which is true, but it does not get anything near what it requires to create a top-class scholarly environment.

From the GoIs point of view it is far easier, I think, to track the use of funds going to Higher Education than to Primary Education. Universities and Colleges are registered and they are all dependent on government aid, and thus the flow of funds can be examined. But for Primary Schools, the geographical spread and linguistic diversity makes it first very difficult to track performance, and then to actually ensure that funds are flowing to the right places (this especially since many schools are directly run by the government). I think is the rationale behind the original ‘trickle-down’ theory of education.

This is not to say however that the standards set for the tracking of HigherEd are very high, because in typical buereaucratic fashion these are a posteriori standards. Autonomous Instituitions like the IIMS and IITs set there own standards and are so way ahead of the rest that they can’t even be compared on a single scale. IMHO

]]> by: Gaurav http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-713 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-713 Read Shekhar Gupta's article <a href="http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=41549" rel="nofollow">Wireless Wimps</a><blockquote>One Minister thumbs his nose, puts all his fingers into IIMs, and entire India Inc can’t get off its spineless back </blockquote> Read Shekhar Gupta’s article

Wireless Wimps

One Minister thumbs his nose, puts all his fingers into IIMs, and entire India Inc can’t get off its spineless back

]]> by: Gautam http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-714 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-714 Interesting counterpoints, by an IIM Insider: <a href="http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/527093.cms" rel="nofollow">'IIM don breaks ranks, backs Joshi'</a> at the Economic Times. [Gautam forgot to add the URl. I've googled it and added it - Ravi] Interesting counterpoints, by an IIM Insider:
‘IIM don breaks ranks, backs Joshi’ at the Economic Times.
[Gautam forgot to add the URl. I’ve googled it and added it - Ravi]

]]> by: Jivha - the Tongue http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-715 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/02/19/iim-fee-cut/#comment-715 <strong>Another perspective on the IIM fee cut</strong> Ravikiran adds an interesting bit of insight into the ongoing IIM&#8217;s vs. Moronli Joshi fee-cut war by saying that it is not the tution fee which deters candidates from poorer backgrounds from going to an IIM but the opportunity cost... Another perspective on the IIM fee cut

Ravikiran adds an interesting bit of insight into the ongoing IIM’s vs. Moronli Joshi fee-cut war by saying that it is not the tution fee which deters candidates from poorer backgrounds from going to an IIM but the opportunity cost…

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