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	<title>Comments on: An agricultural country</title>
	<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/</link>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Ravages</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-536</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-536</guid>
					<description>Just sounding off...see if the answer is right

#1 - Consolidate land holdings so as to make mechanization feasible.
#2 - Improve yeilds either by Hybrid seed or other means (more crop rotation or something...dunno)
#3 - Divert farm labour to other indegenous occupations - crafts and stuff like that

Will that achieve all three?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just sounding off&#8230;see if the answer is right</p>
<p>#1 - Consolidate land holdings so as to make mechanization feasible.<br />
#2 - Improve yeilds either by Hybrid seed or other means (more crop rotation or something&#8230;dunno)<br />
#3 - Divert farm labour to other indegenous occupations - crafts and stuff like that</p>
<p>Will that achieve all three?
</p>
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		<title>by: Patrix</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-537</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-537</guid>
					<description>Ravages seems to go down the socialist path again...not what we want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ravages seems to go down the socialist path again&#8230;not what we want.
</p>
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		<title>by: Yazad</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-538</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-538</guid>
					<description>The only way to do it is by adopting communism. That's why &quot;in theory&quot;, cause it's never worked in practice. Not for lack of trying. Stalin / Mao / Pol Pot tried very hard. They were willing to break millions of eggs for this special omelette. No luck! (They should have read Mises's &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mises.org/store/product1.asp?SID=2&amp;Product_ID=55&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Socialism&lt;/a&gt; tho')

BTW, Ravages is right. In theory at least. And so is Patrix, coz this is not what we want! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only way to do it is by adopting communism. That&#8217;s why &#8220;in theory&#8221;, cause it&#8217;s never worked in practice. Not for lack of trying. Stalin / Mao / Pol Pot tried very hard. They were willing to break millions of eggs for this special omelette. No luck! (They should have read Mises&#8217;s <a href="http://www.mises.org/store/product1.asp?SID=2&#038;Product_ID=55" rel="nofollow">Socialism</a> tho&#8217;)</p>
<p>BTW, Ravages is right. In theory at least. And so is Patrix, coz this is not what we want! ;-)
</p>
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		<title>by: anya</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-539</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-539</guid>
					<description>Okay .. but why ignore exports / imports? Lets consider the first point - i.e. increase the output of agriculture. So if we have 60% of the people producing 60% of our GDP (the excess grain being exported) how will people get poorer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay .. but why ignore exports / imports? Lets consider the first point - i.e. increase the output of agriculture. So if we have 60% of the people producing 60% of our GDP (the excess grain being exported) how will people get poorer?
</p>
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		<title>by: Ravages</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-540</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-540</guid>
					<description>Dont get me wrong. I am no socialist. I would like to think of myself as an unbridled capitalist.
But the question was is it possible, theoretically, and I thought, theoretically, the answers i said might just about manage it.

BTW - the third method, diverting (excess) farm labour to other means of occupation would help reduce dependency on agriculture, improve per capita income, and give you more goods to export. If that ain't capitalistic, I dunno what is</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dont get me wrong. I am no socialist. I would like to think of myself as an unbridled capitalist.<br />
But the question was is it possible, theoretically, and I thought, theoretically, the answers i said might just about manage it.</p>
<p>BTW - the third method, diverting (excess) farm labour to other means of occupation would help reduce dependency on agriculture, improve per capita income, and give you more goods to export. If that ain&#8217;t capitalistic, I dunno what is
</p>
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		<title>by: Nitin</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-541</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-541</guid>
					<description>It seems to suggest that there is poor productivity in the agricultural sector. What we should be thinking about is how best to raise the productivity (eg remove the dependency on the vagaries of the monsoon) and how to integrate the agricultural economy with global markets.

While India does export food grain and certain cash crops (like tea) these are usually in the form of commodities...the lowest end of the value chain. There is no export of fresh produce and packaged food stuff due to poor infrastructure and a food processing industry that remains in perpetual infancy.

The task is cut out - first, improve rural infrastructure; roads, electricity, irrigation, logistics and supply chain and second, incentivise food processing industry.

(also posted on Emergic.org)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to suggest that there is poor productivity in the agricultural sector. What we should be thinking about is how best to raise the productivity (eg remove the dependency on the vagaries of the monsoon) and how to integrate the agricultural economy with global markets.</p>
<p>While India does export food grain and certain cash crops (like tea) these are usually in the form of commodities&#8230;the lowest end of the value chain. There is no export of fresh produce and packaged food stuff due to poor infrastructure and a food processing industry that remains in perpetual infancy.</p>
<p>The task is cut out - first, improve rural infrastructure; roads, electricity, irrigation, logistics and supply chain and second, incentivise food processing industry.</p>
<p>(also posted on Emergic.org)
</p>
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		<title>by: Ramnath</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-542</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-542</guid>
					<description>Perhaps, one answer is value addition. India is even behind Pakistan when it comes to value-addition in agri exports. (Figures, if i remember right, are 30% in case of Pak and 7 or 8% ico India. More investment into agriprocessing would add value to agri products, increase rural income and also generate jobs. 

I have also heard people argue for removing land ceiling and for freeing agricultural marketing. But I dont know what the current status is. Any idea?

----
By the way, I dont see any problem with this: &quot;60% of the population gets 30% of the country's income&quot;. Is it not the same old 80:20 rule. The real problem with the income distribution here is 30% of the population go to bed hungry. Their basic needs are not taken care of: no education, no healthcare and almost no decent water and food. If you are making a policy, you should look at tackling this (providing basic necessities), rather than bringing down the inequities. If bringing down inequality is your goal, you tend to focus on distribution of wealth, rather than generation. And you also tend to see wealthy people as crooks and exploiters. 

The problem with Indian policy making is, I think, we have been raising a lot of noice about removing inequality, instead of looking at ways to ensure basic needs; and have ended up doing neither. 

But my point is really simple. Its ok to have 60% of popultaion getting only 30% of income, as long as &lt;b&gt;that&lt;/b&gt; 30% is not denied water, food, health and education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps, one answer is value addition. India is even behind Pakistan when it comes to value-addition in agri exports. (Figures, if i remember right, are 30% in case of Pak and 7 or 8% ico India. More investment into agriprocessing would add value to agri products, increase rural income and also generate jobs. </p>
<p>I have also heard people argue for removing land ceiling and for freeing agricultural marketing. But I dont know what the current status is. Any idea?</p>
<p>&#8212;-<br />
By the way, I dont see any problem with this: &#8220;60% of the population gets 30% of the country&#8217;s income&#8221;. Is it not the same old 80:20 rule. The real problem with the income distribution here is 30% of the population go to bed hungry. Their basic needs are not taken care of: no education, no healthcare and almost no decent water and food. If you are making a policy, you should look at tackling this (providing basic necessities), rather than bringing down the inequities. If bringing down inequality is your goal, you tend to focus on distribution of wealth, rather than generation. And you also tend to see wealthy people as crooks and exploiters. </p>
<p>The problem with Indian policy making is, I think, we have been raising a lot of noice about removing inequality, instead of looking at ways to ensure basic needs; and have ended up doing neither. </p>
<p>But my point is really simple. Its ok to have 60% of popultaion getting only 30% of income, as long as <b>that</b> 30% is not denied water, food, health and education.
</p>
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		<title>by: avelin</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-543</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-543</guid>
					<description>This 30-60% idea or view has something quite appealing to me.

I share the same views about the anti-globalization movement you have expressed (did not for long even know what it was about).

Here you seem to be arguing partly against the straitforward capitalist way. And in my opinion you're right!

For one, in general, just merely copying the Wester capitalist ways and technologies does introduce all its disadvantages (which are quite severe), too! Why not only take the better elements or improve upon it?

Secondly, the mere definition of 'productive' has to been reviewed very careful! The Western capitalism definition of productive is 'consuming a heavy amount of fossil fuels and relying on sophisticated heavy machines'!

This has two disadvantages:
a) Agriculture should be about producing good and healthy food in a sustainable way. The focus on mere quantity is wrong. This has led to destruction of soils (through overuse, pesticides, fungizides, fertilizers; but also through compressing it with heavy machines), demineralized soils, uniform crops etc.
b) it is very energy intensive and needs complex technology (building the machines, logistics); and what if fossil fuels become too rare before sufficient replacement is there?

Maybe producing one's own food with human power is the most productive way! Of course, there is lot of room for improvement, absolutely!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This 30-60% idea or view has something quite appealing to me.</p>
<p>I share the same views about the anti-globalization movement you have expressed (did not for long even know what it was about).</p>
<p>Here you seem to be arguing partly against the straitforward capitalist way. And in my opinion you&#8217;re right!</p>
<p>For one, in general, just merely copying the Wester capitalist ways and technologies does introduce all its disadvantages (which are quite severe), too! Why not only take the better elements or improve upon it?</p>
<p>Secondly, the mere definition of &#8216;productive&#8217; has to been reviewed very careful! The Western capitalism definition of productive is &#8216;consuming a heavy amount of fossil fuels and relying on sophisticated heavy machines&#8217;!</p>
<p>This has two disadvantages:<br />
a) Agriculture should be about producing good and healthy food in a sustainable way. The focus on mere quantity is wrong. This has led to destruction of soils (through overuse, pesticides, fungizides, fertilizers; but also through compressing it with heavy machines), demineralized soils, uniform crops etc.<br />
b) it is very energy intensive and needs complex technology (building the machines, logistics); and what if fossil fuels become too rare before sufficient replacement is there?</p>
<p>Maybe producing one&#8217;s own food with human power is the most productive way! Of course, there is lot of room for improvement, absolutely!
</p>
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		<title>by: Gautam</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-544</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-544</guid>
					<description>A little &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Wicksell.html target=&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wicksell&lt;/a&gt;. Paraphrased from his inaugural speech at the University of Upsala, 'Ends and Means in Economics'.

&lt;i&gt;If one farmer improves his productivity, he gets rich, but if they all improve their productivity, they get poorer as a class, but the country as a whole becomes better off, because it spends less on the farmers' produce.&lt;/i&gt;

So improving farm productivity, will mean either that, farmers will be worse off, or over a period of time there will be a consolidation of land holdings, and an exodus of labour from the agricultural sector. So think I and Wicksell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little <a href="http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Wicksell.html target=" rel="nofollow">Wicksell</a>. Paraphrased from his inaugural speech at the University of Upsala, &#8216;Ends and Means in Economics&#8217;.</p>
<p><i>If one farmer improves his productivity, he gets rich, but if they all improve their productivity, they get poorer as a class, but the country as a whole becomes better off, because it spends less on the farmers&#8217; produce.</i></p>
<p>So improving farm productivity, will mean either that, farmers will be worse off, or over a period of time there will be a consolidation of land holdings, and an exodus of labour from the agricultural sector. So think I and Wicksell.
</p>
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		<title>by: Gautam</title>
		<link>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-545</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.yazadjal.com/2004/01/28/an-agricultural-country/#comment-545</guid>
					<description>I had not read avelin's post. I think productivity means very simply 

&lt;i&gt;Total Produce/Total No. of People engaged in Production&lt;/i&gt;

Typically, if you increase capital intensity, you will get higher productivity. Producing your own food with human power, maybe a little like what Pol Pot tried to do. 

Though I agree with what seems to be avelin's sentiment, that maybe an imitative development process maynot be the best deal, especially since the West is straying from the principles of Capitalism itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had not read avelin&#8217;s post. I think productivity means very simply </p>
<p><i>Total Produce/Total No. of People engaged in Production</i></p>
<p>Typically, if you increase capital intensity, you will get higher productivity. Producing your own food with human power, maybe a little like what Pol Pot tried to do. </p>
<p>Though I agree with what seems to be avelin&#8217;s sentiment, that maybe an imitative development process maynot be the best deal, especially since the West is straying from the principles of Capitalism itself.
</p>
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